Topics include: Religious manipulation, government corruption, discussion of 'the monster', paranormal investigation, spiritual exploration, and America's role in the 'New World Order'.


Kevin Peacock is a researcher with decade’s worth of experience as well as the author of the book ‘Something Is Wrong With Our Sun’ and others. A native of Australia, Kev has spent years exploring the bizarre mysteries behind crop circles and animal mutilations. An avid ham aficionado and radio operator, Kev’s website can be found at: .

McKinzie Vickrey is a religious studies major at IUPUI, with an emphasis on Native American traditions. Having helped to organize and host a variety of American Indian events and poetry readings in the area, she’s currently working on a new website dedicated to Monsters in Mythology and Religion, as well as a Halloween production of the cult classic ‘Rocky Horror Picture Show.’

Robb Revere is the founder of, and a host on , a network dedicated to free speech in politics, conspiracy, the 911 cover-up and the Patriot Movement. With the station running material 24/7, you can contact Robb if you’re interested in hosting your own program on the ever expanding Revere Network!

Michael A. Dyer is a journalist and musician based in the Indianapolis area, as well as the Administrator of . A self described psychedelic philosopher, he also conducts regular interviews with a variety of talented guests, and runs an assortment of other blogs and websites which can be found on the front page at Upsidebackwards.

Thanks to all of today’s participants, and if you would like to try your hand at an upcoming edition of CIRCLING THE SQUARE, please contact MAD at Further comments on today’s edition can be found and expressed at the Upsidebackward’s forum!


-KEV: When successive governments of a country are so blatantly corrupt and biased toward hegemonious pursuits, have no regard for the rights of the people who have voted for a particular leadership by forcefully bringing about regime change which has been time and again proven to be murderous and as corrupt as the hegemon which empowered it WHY DO THE PEOPLE OF THAT COUNTRY CONTINUE TO ALLOW THAT SYSTEM TO EXIST?

-ROBB: People are like water and will take the path of least resistance. Its like the old saying, you pick your battles. Well, I myself have decided to take every single ounce of tyranny they can and will throw at me. Where I draw the line is the implantable microchip. I think everyone has that line drawn in the sand and it’s just a matter of time before someone crosses it.

-MAD: It’s almost like an inherent weakness has been built into the system(s), at least in the United States. A weakness of apathy and controlled activism, collective causes which have been pre-approved for a 21st Century audience. The social engineers and marketing wizards and media conglomerates, keeping people focused upon trivial illusions, fads, fashion trends; established “rights of passage” into the blossoming world of globalized economic, political, religious unification.

Brainwashing and manipulation of consciousness takes place on various levels, technology and gadgets and gizmos pretend to empower us, but somehow also makes us smaller and weaker: more marginalized and herded into “the system”. In a world of instant communication, many people have a lot to say, but little substance -It’s continuous fluff 24/7- The weather, sports scores, rumors, gossip, ‘American Idol’, etc, etc. Not many people are really looking at the bigger picture, or believe there’s anything they could do to change things even if they did “have a cause” worth fighting for.

Simply put, we’re all being subversively influenced by news/media/entertainment on a daily basis, whether it’s in the U.S., China, Russia, Iran, Cuba, Israel etc. An Information War of streaming propaganda oozing out of the TV, Radio, & Internet at all times. We can try to break free & unplug from the system, or we can continue the downward spiral into mental slavery and degradation of the human spirit. Whatever happens let’s hope there is a more peaceful and intelligent way to solve our problems than mindless revolt for the sake of destruction. At least 50% of the battle, the shackles and prison bars, are all within our minds and psyche. Education and information is the key, which is why the “Illuminati” seeks to control the flow of knowledge, and manipulate the outcome of social uprisings and revolutions.


-MAV: IF YOU WERE IN CHARGE OF THE AMERICAN BUDGET, WHERE WOULD YOU ALLOCATE SPENDING? You can be reasonable or outrageous – either way, would you change the way spending is allocated now? How and why?

-KEV: Regardless of which country – no need to be outrageous, all that is required is some backbone from leadership. Firstly I would completely overturn the banking system – instead of adding to the problem by propping up the people and institutions where the root cause of the problem is I would pour the money into the small business sector for a starter. This is where the greater majority of “Mums and Dads” are employed at meaningful levels.

I would look at as much diversification and decentralization of industry to kick-start the growth of rural areas to stop this cycle of big city choke. People with meaningful jobs that keep them contented as well as occupied would mean a very big step toward breaking the “ghetto syndrome” which is becoming a cancer in virtually every society.

To do all of this would of course mean that we would have to purge the Zionist control from the political system. What is currently taking place is such a clear insight into the way Zion controls the world through its financial grasp.

-ROBB: I would do away with the war on drugs and use the funds saved from that to be put into an education fund for teacher’s salaries. The dept of education would not be eliminated under my plan but it would be overhauled so that it will pay for itself at the same time.

No more money would go to the war on drugs and instead it would be used as a way to create further revenue through taxes for those who chose to use the substances.

If I were in control of the budget I would allocate all funds away from social and welfare funds. Food stamps and welfare checks would be eliminated immediately. All of the social programs and funds from these programs would be invested into education. With the right education, and the correct positive frame of mind, people will be able to see their potential is limitless.

If I controlled where the money went I would put money into agriculture and farming. Teach Americans how to make things happen instead of sitting around waiting for things to happen the way most Americans do. If I controlled the budget I would propose tax decrease for those who went into agriculture and farming. The money would also be put towards rebuilding our infrastructure here at home and keeping our boarders secure.

-MAD: I’d like to see more money spent on the homeless situation and poverty in the U.S., than new sport’s stadiums and higher salaries for athletes. Also, we need to reward “nerds” and “brainiacs” just as much (or more so) as 7 foot tall athletes and 300lb line-backers. Honest authors and musicians and artists will always win my respect over honest basketball players. I agree the “War on Drugs” has been a crock of shit and a huge waste of taxpayer monies and resources. That being said, there would still need to be some kind of mandate or regulations on drug usage and possession. Education, education, education!



-KEV: No I do not think it is “the missing link” of human evolution. It may be an early piece of the evolutionary chain for a primate on the Neanderthal branch – the jaw formation, large cranial capacity and the potential for a near upright posture of this “new” fossil certainly might fit in there.

But the real “missing link” for Homo sapiens is between Homo erectus - Cro-Magnon and the Modern Human. Taking the lack of fossil evidence into account there is a very large gap between what humans of today are and what human remains of only 35,000 years ago represent.

Hominid species is virtually a “new born” in the chain of evolutionary development – approx.

1.5million years of existence beginning with the earliest primitive forms – but when we examine the dispersion of Neanderthal we find it spread across Europe, Africa and Asia until a suddenly new species arrived and outclassed it.

I think a more comprehensive study will eventually lead to the chain through to Neanderthal – but will still leave a “missing link” to today’s humans. (mind you I don’t think Neanderthal is extinct as I do know a few).

-MAD: That is a remarkable find, if it can be completely authenticated. I’ve always had my suspicions about carbon dating techniques and claims of “missing links”. Some academic researchers would try and have us believe that Fire had been mastered in Israel (of all places) one-million years ago, and that jewelry was exported from the region, into the Southern most tip of Africa, some 250,000 years ago. Hey, it must be true, right? Google changed its logo for 24 hours to mark the occasion of these spectacular new fossils! I don’t think the real “missing link” is going to be as simple as some old, dusty bones, but perhaps it will be a philosophical type of awakening and understanding of humanity’s pre-history which very well might prove to be the greatest discovery, both intellectually and spiritually, that mankind has ever faced!


-MAD: Finally, in the mainstream, the term “New World Order” is being trumpeted as the possible salvation and solution to the world economy, political turmoil, and social unrest. It’s becoming increasingly difficult for those citizens with their heads still stuck in the sand to deny the reality of corporate globalization and government corruption any longer. Honestly and as realistically as possible, WHAT DOES THE ‘NEW WORLD ORDER’ MEAN TO YOU and WHAT’S ON THE HORIZON FOR THE NEXT 10 – 20 YEARS?

-KEV: “The New World Order” to me means nothing more than the continuity of an “Old World Order” – the only thing that changes are the faces and the date. The age old goal of those who wanted to bring about a new order of control in the world IS control of the world – if those who are still blind to history and reality wish to call it a “New World Order” then so be it – the term was denied by G. Bush Senior – remember “READ MY LIPS – THERE IS NO NEW WORLD ORDER” – because Zion was not ready at that time the introduce the New World Order as the “savior” of the world – they needed to set the world up for the current global financial situation before they could bring in the “savior”.

The future is nothing more than “more of the same” but with accelerated siphoning of wealth and resources into the coffers of the Superus Eligere to ensure their survival and their grasp on control. I forecast a “pruning of the population” to remove the non-productive aging deadwood – I forecast an increase in the release of more potent viral infections. I forecast the emergence of a new “enemy” for the US/Zionist Bloc – the WOT can’t be dragged out much longer – even the dumbest humans are beginning to wonder why the worlds most powerful and high tech military machine is unable to defeat a tattered ragtag scattering of Islamic militants. Albeit, they are trying hard to keep a never ending stream of recruits flowing into the other sides ranks by killing innocent women and children. But even that will not provide the long term “enemy” they require for creating their money siphoning smokescreen.


-KEV: With the overwhelming amount of scientific fact and evidence relating to the structure of the planet we inhabit and to the time frame involved in the life sequence of the planet - the pattern of repeating emergence and extinction of so many species through the hundreds of millions of years that the planet has existed for WHY DO PEOPLE STILL FALL FOR THE BULLSHIT OF RELIGIOUS BELIEF?

-MAV: People “fall for the bullshit of religious belief” because they need it—they need religion to get up in the morning, they need it to help them make “good” decisions, they need it give them a sense of purpose… they need religion to give them a reason to take some amount of responsibility in their lives. And it isn’t even personal responsibility—it’s to stop an all powerful, all knowing, divine judge from smiting them because HE”S ALWAYS WATCHING. People, in general, have a tendency to feel small… religion boosts them up, gives them a reason to feel big and important in the greater scheme of things. If you take religion out of the equation—just leave it behind and move forward in a world completely devoid of faith in a higher power of any kind (including just the vast power of nature), you leave behind a planet full of people who are no longer accountable to anyone but themselves. They feel the diminutive nature of their existence, leading them to create something else—ANYTHING else—in order to imbue their life with meaning. This is evident even within any one religion that has more than one sect—a majority takes control while a small inner circle leans father and farther into vehemence, thereby leading to the creation of an equally cohesive and divisive unit.

Religion also creates community—most people can’t stand to be alone. For whatever reason, the thought of standing out in their beliefs, morals, and attitude makes most people so uncomfortable it is easy for a large, tight-knit group, to swoop in and coerce that lonely individual into joining up. Most of us in this world today have been brought up with at least some brief encounter with religion—usually some brand of Christianity—so to fall back to it when we feel the most vulnerable and abandoned provides not just comfort, but the certainty that even when we have control over our lives there is “Someone” out there who is willing to love us unconditionally. People are weak and unwilling to take control of that which someone else is more than willing to command.

-ROBB: There is something in all of us as human being that longs for answers to the unexplained. Many people may not show it, but there is something in which they truly believe will give them the answers in which they seek. Some use food, some use drugs and alcohol, some use religion, some use the lack thereof. That’s where the beauty of freedom comes in. The beauty of the 1st Amendment. We all have the choice to be religious and the choice not to be. It may not be God, Jesus, Buddha, or Mohammad, but if you look hard enough you are worshiping something in your life. Whether it’s Sunday football games, the stock market, a famous movie star or musician, the hookers, or the money, or the thrill of adventure sports.. There is something you worship. I guess the question now becomes.. what is a religion? Is belief in the creation yet not attending church (a religious ceremony) a religion? If so then believing in the scientific evidence of the age of the universe and such would be just as religious as the aforementioned sentence.

-MAD: First off, I won’t argue that historically, religion has been one of the biggest oppressors of human consciousness and murderers of opposing belief systems. However, I can understand why, up to this point, organized religion might be considered a necessary evil. While there’s a high probability that things could have gotten along just fine without religion being forced down people’s throats, it would be difficult to deny that throughout some of the teachings of Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, Hindu, Gnosticism, and yes even Christianity, there are some very important spiritual teachings, lessons, and philosophies which might help a person to discover a more “enlightened” path in life. Some individuals, truly, find themselves in need of “divine guidance” throughout their lives or an opportunity to be “reborn” from their circumstances.

Unfortunately, society at large and institutions such as the Catholic Church do not truly allow such religious freedom as for us to pick and choose the good elements of religion, and separate them from the bad. It’s a motto of “ALL OR NOTHING!”, and if you don’t stick to a specific doctrine and dogma, well look out buddy, you’re a witch in need of an exorcism intervention! But fundamentalist Christians, complete deniers of evolutionary sciences, do annoy me to no end.


-MAV: Make a prediction about how religion will change in the United States in the next 50 years – the next 100 years… WHY DO YOU THINK THAT, ALTHOUGH WE DISTINGUISH BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE, OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM IS STILL ENTRENCHED IN PATRIARCHIC CHRISTIAN DOGMA? Do you think that “political religion” will change along with the common man’s religion? Why or why not?

-KEV: To be totally honest I do not see human existence on this planet lasting that long. If it does, religion will continue to EVOLVE to fit itself into the lives of those who need to believe in something other than reality. Historically we have seen how religion evolves when the need arises – if the church sees a flaw in its doctrine/dogma it changes the form as it did when the OT became such a laughable joke. They simply invented a more “human” god who spoke in parables which were nothing more then the common sense ways humanity should live. The fact that the church completely ignored the common sense way was no surprise – after all the need to kill off non-believers is still part of the church MO today.

Religion is nothing more than one of the weapons in the Zionist arsenal. In conjunction with politics it helps create factions and divides the masses into smaller more easily controlled factions. It feeds the confusion that helps to conceal the reality of what is actually taking place. At the highest level of secret society (church and political) there are females. The Matriarch is the power and it is only the visual side of religion that is politically Patriarchal. Remember the place of the “mother of Jesus” in religion. But to enforce the dogma and protect the fortress the male must be given the visual power.

Those poor souls who have become besotted with religion seem to believe in the “gentle lamb” and the benign side of religion – sadly they fail to see the real dark side of religion – the martial power side. There is no division of religion and state – the two exist because of each other – one is the right hand and the other is the left hand. Too many people fail to see what both hands are doing.

-MAD: U.S. religion in the next 50 years? To keep this answer short, I see the emergence of more “UFO CULTS” and belief in otherworldly messengers such as flying saucer Jesus. More “lost tablets” and “newly discovered documents” and yadda-yadda. Technology will reshape religion for the digital age. The United States is still entrenched in Christian dogma, because without Christianity (and the Inquisitions) we never would have left our Native England and other nations to begin with.



-KEV: From the moment we are born our lives are determined. We are the sum of all those who have gone before us. Everywhere we look we see the results of past endeavors – be they good or be they bad – all combine to shape our perception of our present.

As we proceed through life some will never see more than the smallest amount of the panorama spread before them – yes they may fixate on that small self centered existence and never be able to grasp the meaning of the big picture.

But regardless of the course you choose there is no “turning back” – there are only detours and sidetracks – the base course remains the same. The majority of humans are stuck in the gears of the machine they are tied to the warm fuzzy feeling that there is some “greater meaning to life and their existence” – some even fall for the honey sweet words of religious belief which feeds that mindset – they actually believe they were “created in the image of the creator” – the self elevation feeds their fixation and they never feel the need to progress beyond the fantasy.

The sidetracks and detours around a certain belief are where one finds the reality that can either confirm the veracity of a belief – but only if the belief is based on reality and not on mythology or lies. The ability to sift the reality from the fantasy is where the base course remains a constant.

-MAV: If your life is ever “set in stone” what is the point of continued existence? Sure, we all grow and learn more about who we are as we age—we can thank experience for that. But to be “set in stone” is to be so completely certain that the truth we believe in above all others can and should become everyone’s truth… is to stagnate. I can’t make a blanket statement that applies to everyone everywhere, but it is safe to say that MOST people who adhere to some form of organized religion are probably pretty set in their ways—Is that to say that they never doubt? That they never waver in their truth? People are the same with their politics; Republicans all over the country just found that out, right? If it wasn’t them that chose to vote Democrat, then the obvious population to change their belief, even if it is only about the relevance of their vote, was the Democrats out there who, for whatever reason, had never voted before or who weren’t reliable in their voting consistency. If we allow ourselves to stagnate, our ability to learn and grow is shut off.Sure, we all have opinions that it would take someone with quite a bit of persistence to change—but isn’t it possible? And if someone does seem to be so hard-headed as to be immovable in a truth that seems asinine to the rest of the world, remember this: we can’t see into each other’s heads. Who knows why that person doesn’t want you or anyone else to know that you’ve gotten to them; ego, stubbornness, fear…? The bottom line is that we who are willing to accept possibilities take the time and make the effort to be teachers and philosophers in a time where most people’s ultimate truth is the latest celebrity gossip. We have to hope that those who appear to be stuck in a rut are out there somewhere showing someone that they too can imagine the impossible.

-MAD: I’d like to believe that, no matter how old you are or what your situation and circumstances, there is a point where you can change and “evolve” your beliefs and way of life. Even if a person smokes cigarettes for 40 years, and has a heart attack… yeah, I’d like to believe that they can have an awakening where they stop smoking and try and live a healthier life. It’s hard, always seems like an uphill struggle, but we can’t let ourselves get stuck in a rut with no chance of escape. We’ve always got to keep an open mind, an emergency exit for the bomb shelter of our intellect where we can plan and regroup. Even things set in stone are worn away by the breath of time and experience.



-KEV: Spirit – many meanings – a good drop of scotch – a tot of rum – the quality of a person to stand up against what they believe is wrong – the nature of a horse – the will to continue against adversity. All these are “spirit” to me.

Soul is nothing more than a term coined by religion to cloud the minds of the gullible. It has come to mean the “inner person” – an intangible vapor resident in all living creatures. All designed to make humans think they are something more than they really are – a feel good thing. I believe a great deal of this comes from our initial ability to communicate without speaking – humanity is losing this ability very rapidly unfortunately. Not because we want to but because of the way our bodies are being continually loaded up with toxins.

Before we are born – while still in the wet warm womb of our mother – we communicate to her telepathically – we continue to do so for some time after birth until our ability wilt from the lack of response from others around us and the build up of toxins in our cells. But throughout our lives we still have flashbacks and “déjà vu” – this of course being the open door to the belief in “spirit” and “soul”.

-MAV: Let me preface my answer: I do not adhere to any form of formal religion fully ESPECIALLY those of the Judeo-Christian persuasion. That being said, I do believe that each person has a soul, or spirit, that is wholly theirs. In Vodou they call it the “ti bon ange,” or “little good angel” and it is what makes each of us unique. The “gros bon ange,” or “big good angel” is the part of ourselves that connects us with the rest of humanity. I like this distinction because it gives each of us the chance to be completely autonomous and forces us to accept that we are all solely responsible for our actions, good and bad, while still being part of and answerable to a whole. I don’t see the soul as a necessarily supernatural thing. It isn’t some wispy ghost-like apparition that floats out of our body when we die, drifting up or down according to our actions in this human life. Nor is it an ethereal energy that inhabits another living thing upon our demise. I’d like to think that no matter what happens and where our souls/spirits go when we die that while we are alive here and now we are building them up to help us through whatever comes next—that they are the very epitome of what makes us each special and separate from one another.


-KEV: Humanity is without any shadow of doubt controlled by a central power which is concealed behind the facade of open government. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to be able to examine the events that have taken place for thousands of years which have influence the course of human history. With this in mind I ask WHY IS IT THAT SO MANY PEOPLE DO NOT FOLLOW THE THREADS WHICH TIE THESE EVENTS TOGETHER AND BY DOING SO COME TO A GREATER UNDERSTANDING OF WHO IS BEHIND THE CONTROL OF THE CURRENT HUMAN POPULATION?

-MAV: The statement that “without any shadow of a doubt [humanity is] controlled by a central power” assumes the fact that the “central power” in question is indeed organized; that it has not changed hands and/or fractured over humanity’s long journey. You’re talking about a power which must be highly independent and structured in order to control people all over the vastness of our planet, and keep that control through war, uprising, genocide, civil unrest, industrialization, religious conquest… the list goes on and on. I will concede that the possibly exists, but to determine THAT power controls absolutely and goes “beyond a shadow of a doubt” seems to me to be giving those who are in control at the moment far too much credit. Surely there have been those in power, even with great amounts of power and for extended periods of time (like generations), who have influenced the direction of human history for their own gains or for some ill-conceived notion of “greater good” that has been tainted by the passing of time and the greed inherent in man. But to believe that now, because of what—technology, our ability to be “good”, twitter?—we can somehow discover that which has alluded man since time immemorial? That may be giving modern humanity in general too much credit. As time goes by, this regime too will be overthrown—cast aside to make way for those new-modern “men” whose ideas are far more outlandish than those who came before. They will assume power and a new age of mindless entertainment and numbing politics will ensue. That mindlessness alone is enough to stop the common person from looking too deeply into issues and ideas that seem otherwise “handled” by people who profess greater know-how. To explore ideas that go against the grain may be to open up a world of possibility that simple minds simply can’t handle. For example: I try to talk to my mother, a basically intelligent, somewhat rational woman with an essentially poetic mind—I try to talk to her about all kinds of things… her Catholicism, politics, the lies history tells us—and you know what she says? ‘Oh, McKinzie, I just don’t understand. You’re just smarter than me. Now be quiet—General Hospital is on…’ Do I feel put off, yeah. But she’s my mother and I truly believe that if her basic belief structure were rattled too much, she would be lost. It is up to those of us who can handle it to change that structure. To change what is viewed as “mainstream.” To make the mindless mindful—if not, finding out who is really in charge means nothing, because the fact remains that they are indeed still in control of what the masses view as acceptable within their own worldview.

-MAD: I think this relates to your first question, Kevin, as well as my original response. It’s a matter of indoctrination and brainwashing (going back centuries and longer), and the fact that most people, even if they did understand “the horrible truth”, would find themselves at a complete loss as to how to prevent it. Exposing these threads of corruption, in terms of a BIGGER PICTURE, is much easier in theory than in reality. But still, you have to try and make a positive difference; otherwise your conscience deserves no rest.



-KEV: Hmmmmmmmm – it’s BIG – it’s UGLY – it’s OUTRAGEOUS – it’s LIKE A MONSTER. Any or all of these would “define” monstrous I suppose. If I roll them all into one I suppose I could say they fit USA foreign policy like a glove.

-ROBB: In my opinion something monstrous means something that is huge: something greater or bigger than ever seen before. Like, I went to 5 Brother’s Burgers (diner) the other day and man that burger was monstrous! Haha I really loved this question because of the root word monster. The 1st thought that comes to mind when I read the word is not about something scary like a monster, but something of gigantic proportions.

-MAD: Aside from Dracula, the Wolf Man, Frankenstein and Freddy Kruger? Child abuse, human trafficking, genocide, mass murder. If more people looked into the global epidemic of human trafficking and forced sex slavery, they would be utterly shocked and speechless. This is probably part of the reason it’s an epidemic in the first place. Just one example: a recent report estimates there are millions (yes millions) of adolescent sex slaves and child prostitutes in India. What are you supposed to say to that? Keep in mind, India, supposedly one of the U.S.’s closest nuclear allies. How are you supposed to respond to the staggering fact that 2000 children go missing in the United States on a daily basis? Vatican pedophilia? I find these statistics “monstrous”.



-KEV: Absolutely! There is no reason to spank a child – spanking simply highlights the total lack of parenting ability in an adult.

As a child I was whipped – it was not uncommon in those days – the implement used was an electric jug cord and it did real damage to the area where it was applied. It was used to enforce GOD'S WORD and purge the DEVIL from me because I was left handed.

As a parent I did smack my little daughters hand once when I caught her turning on the electric
stove elements – it broke two hearts that little smack – I believe I could have rectified her behavior with speech instead of the smack which was a sudden impulse thing - and I have never done more than raise my voice to her since. I have no reason what so ever to believe that she could possibly have become a better person than she is if I had subjected her to physical smacking or abuse – it is possible that one little smack did start the sequence of verbal discipline being so effective. I don’t know – but what I do know is that if I see an adult hitting a child at the

Supermarket I can’t stop myself from intervening. I will even call the Police if I think the child is being subjected to violence. A smack may be as damaging to the child as being flogged with a jug cord – who knows? I suppose discipline must be tailored to the situation – but we need to always remember that children see us far differently than we see ourselves. We might see ourselves as angels when in fact the child might see us as a monster.

-MAV: No, beating your child is child abuse. Spanking your child when your child is doing or has done something that puts him/her or another child in danger is a perfectly acceptable way of expressing to your child that the action they are being spanked for is innately wrong. Now, when I see a woman haul off and whack her kid in the head while shopping for groceries or clothing or whatever simply because the child got too noisy or demanding? That IS child abuse and indicative of something else wrong in the home. As a woman, I have to say it isn’t just the physical abuse that is disturbing in today’s world, but rather the emotional and verbal abuse that is truly alarming. Often this is followed (or preceded) by an irrational physical outburst, but that is to be expected when the acceptable means of discipline include calling your daughter a bitch or your son a stupid little bastard—so what are we really talking about here? Spanking as child abuse, or the lengths young, uneducated, ill-prepared, distracted, self-absorbed baby factories will go to in order to get their offspring to comply with their demands and stay out of their way. I don’t know about any of you, but I got spanked and guess what? I’m not scarred for life by the experience. I know people who got beat with a belt, a switch they themselves cut from a tree, or a thin flexible ruler—with holes in it (think about it… it would hurt like hell!) and guess what? Even if the things they were beat for didn’t actually deserve the beating they received, they still learned a lesson and came out… well, maybe not “better”, but they don’t hold it against the parent, teacher, grandparent, etc. that hit them. Why, you ask? — Because it was done not out of anger or annoyance, but with the intention to teach a lesson; One that might follow them into adulthood and lend some palpable assistance in the building of their character. Of course, that can’t be said about every child who has been hit by an adult, but I think the main thing here is intention; for whose benefit is the child being hit? If it’s the parent, then yeah—you could call that abuse. If it is because there is a message to be conveyed or a lesson to be learned that the child will actually receive more fully because of the chosen method of discipline, the word ‘abuse’ seems a bit strong.

-MAD: I’d think that depends on different situations. Sometimes a spanking is the only language a child might understand. That being said, yes surely, there are borderline abuse issues if it becomes overly-frequent. At some point, it’s obviously not working. And no one has the right to spank a child but a parent or trusted guardian, and after 8 years old, *geeze*, find another solution. I had a friend back in school who was still getting spanked (and his sister) well into Jr. High. If ten + years of spanking hasn’t done the trick, obviously the parents are to blame, and should be held responsible in the first place. I was spanked once as a child, at 4 or 5 years old with a belt, that was enough for me… though I was far from a perfect angel.

I think verbal and emotional abuse of children is a bigger problem than spanking alone. Some of these kids are already completely fucked up before they even have a chance to get started. The future of Generation Y and Z is extremely worrisome.



-KEV: I am not Japanese so I do not think I should try to express my views of the events of 911 in such a way. It requires the ingrained cultural psyche of a true Japanese to express one self in the Haiku fashion. But as an Australian I can say that I do not believe the “official” version of events and that there is far more to the events than the masses are being told. Maybe it would go something like this in the haiku style – BULLSHITO!

-MAV: Blind masses wander
Patriotic intentions
Blind masses wonder

-ROBB: on that one September morning
i looked up
and my freedoms were gone



-MAD: America has little imps and fairies whispering in its ear, telling it what to do, over hundreds of years. It’s a bit of a schizophrenic messiah complex which isn’t completely America’s fault. Like Lenny from the classic “Of Mice and Men”, he just wanted to pet the rabbits all day, pet the rabbits, and whoops! I broke the rabbit’s neck!


-MAV: When it comes to American involvement in other countries, WHAT DO YOU THINK OUR RESPONSIBILITY IS AS A NATION? What role, if any, should America play on the world stage? *note – remember our poor economic climate, our poverty rate overall, our low educational standards, etc… do we really have the right to interfere when we haven’t done all we can do at home?

-KEV: America has the same responsibility to every other nation that every other nation has to America. Stay out of the affairs of others!!! The world today has millions of people displaced because of the way the USA has interfered. And of course the interference has been hidden behind the façade of “caring” and “helping” others. How can it be seen that America is helping? All it is doing is driving people from their homes as it drags more and more of the world into conflict.

Those people are trying to float across oceans to find a home where the US is not going to bomb them or starve them by imposing sanctions on their leadership to try to force regime change. America points the finger at others who dare to rise up and resist them – they declare them “terrorists” and bomb the crap out of them and then cry like babies when these people do take some action against them.

In the eyes of the world America is nothing more than a pawn of Israel – a giant hypocrite thaT spews out religious dogma from one side of its face and death and destruction from the other.

-MAD: Our responsibility as a nation, ironically, should take a bit of a cue from Crowley’s definition of magick in “Do what thou wilt, so long as it doesn’t harm others”. And of course an extra helping of the golden rule in “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”. The United States has all of this ability, all of these resources to help the world and rally the international community to fight poverty and pestilence head on, but somehow it’s always America that seems to be at the root cause of global pandemics, epidemics, and mass genocide. Rather curious.



-KEV: Jail is supposed to be for those who have committed a crime. If they are guilty and so proven then that is where they should be. If a person sees jail as “no big deal” then it paints a picture of the person as not much more than a waste of space. You won’t do the time if you don’t do the crime.

I know people who think there is nothing wrong with breaking into someone’s house and stealing from them – others who would think nothing of killing someone for a few dollars. These people see jail as no big deal – but far more important is how I see them.

-MAD: I think with the increased monitoring and surveillance, the fact that the United States has more people incarcerated than probably anywhere else in the world (and what a tax strain!), it just seems common place to some people, of a certain ilk and mentality, for jail to be no big deal. In some ways with TV and Hollywood, being a felon has even been glamorized. Heck, there are some “truthers” who make a living off of making sure they get arrested at protests, so they can capture it all on Youtube and try to incite police provocation. Activist Cindy Sheehan was arrested 100 times as some kind of “political statement”, and luckily her Republican supporters were always able to bail her out of the pokey.


-MAD: Obligatory and typical “conspiracy theory” question here: WHAT ARE SOME OF YOUR GUY’S THOUGHTS ON THE APOLLO LUNAR MISSIONS OF THE LATE 60’s & EARLY 70’s? I’ve seen a ton of footage/images and still have doubts about the authenticity of these historic events. Could it have been faked, if so how do you believe they pulled it off, and why is NOBODY going back until 2020 - 2025?

-KEV: I can fully understand why a person looking at the Apollo missions today could believe the story. It was a prime example of what I mean when I say, “understanding the past is the key to understanding the present and preparing for the future.”

But having lived through it and watched it all unfold and then learning more about the world situation prior to, during and since, I find it easy to believe the whole thing was nothing more than a farce.

Such an event would not have been difficult to sign into the “National Secrets Act” of the time – those who knew the real deal would have been relatively few – the majority of players would only have been exposed to the peripheral events that would have seem for all intents and purposes real.

As a Ham radio buff I have spoken to other hams who claimed they believed the missions were real because they were monitoring the communications from the Space craft and the Lunar landing modules.

But after discussing the logistics with them and going through the way radio can easily be “retransmitted” through repeating transponders they did take a step back – and admit that it could have been done using repeaters in orbit which would make it appear the signals were coming from space. One radio log I read actually listed comms from Apollo orbiting the Moon to Mission control when the Moon was on the other side of the Earth – duh! A physical impossibility which the poor old ham had to finally agree to after heated debate.

So that side of the story was easily explained – a simple deception using repeaters in orbiting satellites to make it appear that it was two way communications with a manned space craft orbiting the Moon.

Another favorite argument raised is the “laser reflector” which was “placed by an astronaut” – yeah right – nothing that could not have been done by a robotic rover.

Moon rocks – supposedly picked up by the astronots – again simply picked up by the robotic rovers which did a lot of this work.

If the Moon was so easily reached at that time and we have made such huge leaps forward since then – why are we spending thousands of Billions of $$$$ building a “Space station” in LEO (low Earth orbit)????????

The Moon is a massive stable satellite which is in a self sustaining orbit – it does not require constant firing of rocket motors to maintain its orbit. Why did we not simply construct a “Space” station on the Lunar surface? A larger structure could have been built housing more people – logistics are not a problem because cargo containers could easily be sent to orbit the Moon – the Shuttle could have been used to advantage because it could actually land and take off from the Moon without the need for massive driver motors to get it clear of the Earths gravity and atmosphere at that end – it would need very little thrust to take off in the greatly reduced gravity of the Moon.

The Station could actually be constructed UNDERGROUND and need not be on the surface. All that would be required on the surface would be the space port facilities and a hardened bunker at the entrance to the complex. For those who were not around at the time I will give a quick summary of the world situation at the time:

1. US/Soviet “Cold War”

2. US way behind Russia in “space race”

3. The “domino theory” in full swing with South Africa, South America, SE Asia, India all

coming under Soviet influence.

4. US bogged down in Vietnam.

5. Kennedy murdered.

6. Nehru overthrow plot foiled – Patiala Regiment wiped out along with all the Sikh Generals

who were working with US/British to overthrow Nehru.

7. British under severe stress in Far East – US unable to help because of Vietnam

8. Soviets gaining in Pacific – Indonesian leader in bed with Russians

The American people were in a state of dejection – they needed something to lift them. The Soviets decided that it was impossible for humans to survive outside the VA belts – all three of their manned missions into deep space returned with the Cosmonauts dead from radiation – they were severely burned from the UV even though their missions were very short duration.

Of course their dropping out of the race was hyped up by US spin doctors to look like the US had broken their backs – how many millions of US$ were poured into Soviet coffers to keep them from letting out the truth at that time we will never know. But America miraculously sent their men to the Moon and they actually got out and walked around……………………….and pigs did fly.

-MAV: I haven’t seen the footage in awhile, but from what I remember the shadows were a bit wonky and the “zero gravity” could have been slow-motion camera work… that being said—how are things supposed to look on the moon? No one on earth had any frame of reference, so it could have very easily been faked but it could have also been very real. Do I think it actually WAS? No, it seems impossible given the technology that existed at the time, the short period in which we actually “accomplished” our goal, and the tension growing between us and Russia had to have been a mitigating factor in our sudden ability to do what no one else on earth was capable of doing. I do, however, think we’ve been there since the first landing. If for no other reason than we had to prove to ourselves that we could actually do it. As fast as technology has evolved over the past one hundred years, it doesn’t seem out of the realm of possibility that if our skills and tools weren’t enough to get us all the way to the moon, some highly innovative special effects, never before seen, could have convinced an already susceptible audience that they were looking at images of people, heroes, walking on alien ground. Why isn’t anyone going back until 2020-2025? Why would they? There’s not really much there. It seems to me that we’ve exhausted whatever funding was put in place to explore the moon—a planetoid that will never really be inhabitable by human beings—and instead looked to other planets more similar to our own in a search for more knowledge about our own beginnings or end. Plus, we’ve already done it, right? Not only that, but we were the first—so what else is there to do and what would going back accomplish now?



-MAD: There’s a lot of confusion and a lot of reputable scientists who are still scratching their heads as to what exactly is taking place with these undeniable earth (and solar) changes. Of course, the ancients probably had a lot better understanding of some of these cyclical situations than we do today, which is why religion and prophecy are secretly centered on the prominent element of “astrotheology”. This modern push to “go green” and belief in global warming, might be something as stupid as the fact that young people had sympathy for Gore, (suspiciously) losing to Bush, so they were willing to buy in to whatever new product Gore was selling. And while “going green” isn’t a bad idea in-of-itself, it’s also an opportunity for stricter government mandates and regulations, while creating a “Green Reich” forcing their beliefs down everyone else’s throats. All in all, I don’t deny that there’s a warm up, but to me that marks the beginning of an ice age. Thirty years ago scientists were running around like chicken’s with their heads cut off worried about global cooling and global dimming, so...


-MAV: IF YOU COULD GO ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, WHERE WOULD YOU GO AND WHY? Who, if anyone, would you like to go with you?

-KEV: Having traveled to most countries I would only opt for Australia – the southern hemisphere seems to have far fewer crazy people ;-)

No hesitation on companions – my wife and daughter of course.

-MAD: It might sound generic but I’d like to visit some of the ancient monuments of the world. Travel to all of the ruins of Egypt, Mexico, Stonehenge, etc. And aside from you McKinzie, as well as some family members, I’d like to take some authors and researchers along to ensure that the conversation remained a fascinating and provocative discussion, equally as interesting and entertaining as visiting the monuments themselves! I’d also like to visit all the major cave systems and mountain peaks of the world (and some of the minor ones too).



-KEV: They are having fun – and of course making a lot of money doing so. It’s all a bit like televangelism – you know you are pulling peoples legs but you get the kick out of seeing them believe the bullshit. Raise your hand and they all fall down. Ghost hunters play up wind noise and creaky old houses and the audience embrace the atmosphere for 30 min or an hour while the commercials get pumped in…

-MAV: I think in order to be possessed a person must do more than simply go out looking for ghosts and spirits. If you are going to believe in ghosts to begin with, you have to concede the fact that they would have to be all around us, all the time. Maybe not as densely packed as a smoke screen, but there would have to a lot of them, right? SO if that is the case, why aren’t we (those who believe and those who do not) constantly being possessed? And if all it takes is the search for spirits to lead to possession, why aren’t people possessed more often? Why don’t we have definitive proof that possession occurs? I am firmly convinced that there are only two real ways a human being can be possessed- 1) ask for it—mediums and psychics all over the world intentionally open themselves up as vessels to those on another plane. For many, the act of possession is a religious experience and not at all bad, wrong, or taboo. It is a form of power, an act of ritual/ceremony, and a necessary step in the practitioner’s spiritual life. Allowing their body to be taken over and coming out of it with their own spirit intact is a gateway to the highest levels of authority within their religion. Then there is 2) your own spirit, or spiritual constitution, is so weak, and your contact with an active entity so constant, that you can’t help but to be overcome by an energy more powerful than your own. And it’s not just a supernatural possession I’m talking about here—this line of reasoning can also apply to relationships between people, between people and things, between people and places, etc… I don’t’ think it’s all bad, nor do I think the act of possession has to be all encompassing, negating any and all other contacts in a person’s life—it’s simply another part of what some people need in order to complete themselves. On a side note—when the possession is bad, or seems that way, why do people always assume it’s the Devil? I mean really, like “He” has time to posses You…

-MAD: A lot of this is in good fun, people like to be “spooked” after all. Yet, despite all these hundreds of ghost hunting societies and independent investigators, we’re still not really any closer to real answers than we were in the 19th century with the advent of Parapsychology Organizations. But yes, playing with Ouija boards and such, holding séances, getting too involved with voodoo rituals and black magic… I believe people can definitely open themselves up to negative energies and forces which they don’t fully understand. Tie this in with pre-existing psychological disorders, or possibly narcotics abuse, and you could have a real problem on your hands. Even if it is a bit of a “game”, it should be handled both professionally and responsibly (not to mention scientifically!).


-MAD: Gotta take things one day at a time and work in patience and compassion, but WHAT IS IT GOING TO TAKE TO “WAKE PEOPLE UP”? I think most people would agree that we’re being dominated and controlled by media propaganda and brainwashing on a daily basis. HOW CAN MORE PEOPLE BREAK FREE FROM LIFE’S ILLUSIONS?

-KEV: The greater majority will go to their death never realizing the truth until that final instant. One thing I have found is that trying to tell people that a problem exists and trying to explain it to them is a waste of time.

The only way that people will BELIEVE and face REALITY is by discovering it for them selves. For me that mean’s instead of trying to explain things to people I find it far better to simply open the door for them and hope they will be brave and smart enough to look further and walk through the door.

Don’t forget Mike – the people who you see around you are the sum product of all who have gone before them and are the product of thousands of years of political and religious brainwashing by the forces of the Zionist cult.

The devil spends a great deal of effort convincing them that the devil is someone else.

-ROBB: I think it is difficult to break people free of life in the matrix because it’s too damn fun. When I sit and look at people in the freedom/truth movement I’m reminded of a verse from the song ‘cocaine’ by Jackson Browne. In the verse he is sitting in the Dr’s office and the Dr. says “son, here it says you’re 27, well that’s impossible. You look like you could be 45.”

That’s what too much obsession about what’s going to happen next ie: terror attack, loss of freedoms, new world order, swine flu.. it will end up making you into an old man before your time. I think that’s why its hard to get people to "WAKE UP"

Things on a personal level are still too good for us as individuals in America. We still have our air conditioners cranked down to 75 degrees. We still have the Kentucky derby, football, Nascar and all kinds of bread and circus to keep us from really giving a shit.

I look at it in the way Christians look at the end of the world. They believe it won’t occur till every ear has heard the word of god, whether they believe it or not. I think we need to take the same mentality in waking people up. Don’t obsess about it, but tell everyone you know about it, and you’ve done your part.